Curse

GW Monkey · Jun 21, 2005, 04:07 PM // 16:07

This is to balance a recent thread re: elitists.

e·lit·ism - consciousness of or pride in belonging to a select or favored group. (Random House)

Damn straight.

We have the right to our elitist attitudes in many situations. We have played every class at least 20 hours. Memorized every arena and PvE zone. Can quote NPC dialog and joke about it in a vulgar display of geekdom. It's not our fault. We didn't start out this way. But, we have the capacity to learn. To comprehend. To understand. As the hours stack up, so does our skill at playing GW. If you don't have this experience, then by definition...

Yet for many of the GW player base, this do not happen. They, quite frankly, are idiots. And it's hard to tell when someone executes a classic bonehead move to know if it's just a new player doing it for the first time, or of they're one of the developmentally challenged individuals who do it every single time. A permanoob. We do our best to hold our tongues, but wasting an hour getting somewhere to have someone ruin it in 2.3 seconds, not intentionally griefing but just displaying gross amounts of stupidity, sometimes phrases get from the brain to the fingers. But please: don't confuse elitist venting with raving lunatics and screaming idiots.

You need to understand our point of view. You name a PvE zone, we'll tell you who's in it, where they stand, what they'll cast at you. Doesn't make you a elitist to memorize the streets in your neighborhood... just means you've been down them a lot. Same thing applies. You don't intend to memorize it, but the way the brain stores information is beyond your control. Same for tactics. We, our elitist selves, made these same tactical mistakes. Months ago. (And we still do on occasion, but we are rougher on ourselves than you'll ever be.) Remember some of us have been playing since last fall. But even those who have only been playing since 4/27, chalking up less than 2h/day are elitist veterans too, compared to the permanoob.

Now, that said - don't confuse elitists with IDIOTS who think they're better than other people in every given situation. An elitist is usually condencending but not overly rude; they'll chide you, not scream in all caps cussing you and then quit the team. These are the permanoobs too, just ones that have played longer than the others. Let me give examples:

Elitist: "gah. that was dumb. Fall back NOW."
P'noob: "OMFG YOIU STPUID A$$HOLE!!11 WTF!?"

Elitist: "No, you're wrong. This way." (drawing path on compass)
P'noob: "DO WHAT ISAY IVE DONT THIS BEFORE SO STFU!" (pinging the compass endlessly until everyone follows)

I probably didn't get my point across. Oh well. At least I'm elitist so I don't really care.

Ryoushi · Jun 21, 2005, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Amen to that.

arnansnow · Jun 21, 2005, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Why didn't you just put this in that other thread? Why make a new one, when there are already arguements in that one.

Wu Shao · Jun 21, 2005, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnansnow

Why didn't you just put this in that other thread? Why make a new one, when there are already arguements in that one.

Cause he's an Elitist.

Joseph Fallen · Jun 21, 2005, 04:47 PM // 16:47

The fact is that many of you self-proclaimed elitists really are nothing more than the permanoobs that you have defined and pretending that you are somehow superior simply because you have already "been there and done that" is as ridiculous as high school seniors somehow believing that they are superior to incoming freshman. The truth is that they just have more time invested.

I played with one of you elitists the other night. He was a W/Mo (imagine that). He ranted and raved about how this was his fifth character that has ascended and that we should all follow him through the mission because he knew exactly what he was doing. I am an Ementalist so after the first serious group of creatures nearly killed us I asked a simple favor of our group elitist. I said,"would you mind calling your targets so I can help take them out faster?" He said, "Call my targets? What do you mean?" He didn't know how.

I rest my case.

Stauf · Jun 21, 2005, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Quote:

Now, that said - don't confuse elitists with IDIOTS who think they're better than other people in every given situation.

But you see some of those "idiots" ARE "elitists", because (guess what) they have an elitist attitude.

I mean, God, this is just stupid.

The fact is some people are jerks.
Some of these jerks are new to the game, or act like it (what other people call "noobs").
Some of these jerks have been playing for a while, or act like it (what other people have called "elitists").

No one "side" has a monopoly on The Jerks(TM).

Minwanabi · Jun 21, 2005, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Amen.

Apophis Jaan · Jun 21, 2005, 05:17 PM // 17:17

So you have no life and you've played every profession to death, memorized each zone (god who even does that?) and know NPC dialog. Good for you, do you want a medal now? NONE of that gives you the right to be an arrogant prick, no matter what you think. It gives you the right and the know-how to write a strategy guide, so why dont you be construtive and go do that. Indtead of harbering this arrogant assinine attitude that really doesn't help anyone.

Sure some people make stupid mistakes, do you really think insulting him (even being condencending is extremely insulting), calling him n00b (though you claim the people who cry n00b are perman00bs, they have the attitude so that makes them elitists) or getting frustrated will really help the situation any? Why dont you be constructive and help him or her perform better, offer advice not arrogance, nor advice with a side of arrogance. Just Advice.

But maybe I should be thanking you GW Monkey. So thank you, you proved my point. Elitists are arrogant pricks, lonely shells of human beings looking for whatever reason they can to make themselves feel superior. In your case rediculous knowledge of Guild Wars. By the way this is where you say "Jealous are we Jaan?", no not really I don't give a flying *profanity goes here* what you know. Unless of course your gonna tell me, but even then if it comes with egotistical remarks I don't want the info from you, I'll go look it up myself.

Remember that attitude test I mentioned in the other thread? You just failed, do us all a favor and uninstall the game now.

smitty-gw · Jun 21, 2005, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Sorry guys, but I have to agree with the Monkey's post.

It doesn't make him an elitist, just a response to being called an elitist for not being a "permanoob".

I think he is a bit silly justifying an "elitist attitude" though.

Experienced is vastly different from elite.

Apophis Jaan · Jun 21, 2005, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Yes experienced is very different from elite. But he's clearly elite and as stated it's this eliteness and percieved right to be he's defending.

I read his post and I quote, "We have the right to our elitist attitudes in many situations" this phrase proves my point. No he doesn't have the right to that attitude, no one does. Nothing, NOTHING gives you the right to be a prick (except maybe if your an army drill sargeant but that's a whole other contxt). It doesn't matter if you are actually better, it still doesn't give you the right to vent at other people or act like an egotistical asshat.

smitty-gw · Jun 21, 2005, 05:35 PM // 17:35

I hear ya Jaan. I'm still chuckling about the defense of an "elitist attitude"

BUT

The noobs are multiplying.

Apophis Jaan · Jun 21, 2005, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Influx of new players. Point them to the gurus friend, point them to the gurus. The gurus will help them out. No I dont mean elitists, I mean these forums.

As for the idiots, well their just idiots plain and simple. I still dont understand where newb became synonymous with moron. Because it really isn't, new doesnt equal dumb. So starting right now I'm never gonna use the term with regards to online morons. I shall use a word that plain and simply embodies all that they are. That word is "f*cktard". Use your imagination to fill in the blank

Tutompop · Jun 21, 2005, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Judging from his post (ignoring the abrassive remarks) I think the OP has a different view of what the elitest attitude actually is. He states that an elitest will simply tell you "No. You're wrong, it's this way." That is in no way elitest, it's just that he or she knows (or had better be sure if he's going to correct you) which path is correct. Whereas the elitest we commonly think of would not only verbally berate you for not doing things the most efficient way possible but he would also fail to offer any kind of direction. This form of abuse fits more with his theory on the permanoob who thinks he knows it all when in fact he is utterly clueless. Getting to 20 doesn't mean jack in this game, its how you adapt and use your class choice to better the team that counts.

Telling somebody the right way or a more efficient way is not elitest. He had the experience before, somebody taught him or less commonly he learned it for himself and so he or she is sharing it with others. Sometimes a person needs to take charge and lead if he knows what he or she is doing. The real fools are the ones who confuse a helping hand for arrogance, i've run into this myself several times. I offer a better way that works and i'm told that we don't need to change or that i'm arrogant. Sorry, but as a monk I know if we're bordering on disaster or coasting through a mission based on how fast/how often/how close the heals fly out. When we die because you didn't want to adapt you sure as hell better not blame the monks.

Everygroup can improve with better tactics and some basic direction, the problem comes in when people aren't willing to adapt because they are in fact "permanoobs". I don't care how much experience you have (this only makes it easier to lead since the experienced already know what is expected of them) if you can follow directions to adapt and play your class to a competent level any group can be "good"

P.S. OP, your points are valid but are buried under some abrassive comments that put people on the defensive immediately. The human psyche is a fragile thing and once that wall is up, it will not come down.

GW Monkey · Jun 21, 2005, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apophis Jaan

So you have no life and you've played every profession to death, memorized each zone (god who even does that?) and know NPC dialog. Good for you, do you want a medal now? NONE of that gives you the right to be an arrogant prick, no matter what you think. It gives you the right and the know-how to write a strategy guide, so why dont you be construtive and go do that. Indtead of harbering this arrogant assinine attitude that really doesn't help anyone.

You so miss the point, which WAS my point. It was a counter that everyone who thinks someone is being "elitest" is probably dealing with an idiot child. And I'm going out on a limb to make an assumption which category you fit in.

Where did I say I didn't help? I am the freakin' only one who answers noobs sometimes, even though they're rudely spamming the same question as fast as the anti-flood filter will let them... but you have this preconcieved notion and didn't even read my post, just skimmed it and extracted the parts that meant something to you and extrapolated the rest.

You attack, not even the concept, but me personally? Why? Because you don't understand, and people always react this way when they don't understand something... it's a defensive mechanism. It's cool. I can't change you or your preconceptions. Just remember to check that attitude in real life as many people you meet without the anonymity of being online might decide to it's better if you don't complete your normal life cycle.

Whatever. I have zero interest in arguing with you, and since you lack the comprehension to dicern the difference means it'd be a wasted effort anyway.

Have a nice day!

GW Monkey · Jun 21, 2005, 06:06 PM // 18:06

(In case you truly do misunderstand, that entire response was from a fictious "elitest a$$hole" perspective. It's intended to be agressive, it's a pun. If you respond like a flamer you'll have missed the point a total of 3 times.)

Apophis Jaan · Jun 21, 2005, 06:16 PM // 18:16

I saw your point and I corrected you, you don't understand what an elitist is friend. Elitists are the arrogant pricks that think they know everything. When you described permanoobs you were actually describing a form of elitists. It doesn't matter if they actually know what there talking about or not. It's the attitude, there are many players with this attitude (obviously your one) both new and experienced. Also never did I say that when your dealing with an elitist your dealing with an idiot child, to re-iterate your dealing with someone whose ego has outgrown his head. Not once did I say they were idiot children, yes some of them are idiots. But as I always said it's the attitude that makes you an elitist not how much you know, or how mart you are. It's all attitude. Obviously you missed my point.

I attacked you because your defending an attitude that really ruins online gaming. Frankly I dont want to argue with you either, so were both done with this thread.

arnansnow · Jun 21, 2005, 06:18 PM // 18:18

e·lit·ism or é·lit·ism
n.
1. The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.
2.
1. The sense of entitlement enjoyed by such a group or class.
2. Control, rule, or domination by such a group or class.

Straight from www.Dictionary.com

Algren Cole · Jun 21, 2005, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by GW Monkey

We have the right to our elitist attitudes in many situations. We have played every class at least 20 hours. Memorized every arena and PvE zone. Can quote NPC dialog and joke about it in a vulgar display of geekdom. It's not our fault. We didn't start out this way. But, we have the capacity to learn. To comprehend. To understand. As the hours stack up, so does our skill at playing GW. If you don't have this experience, then by definition...

this is something you're proud of?

Reiden Argrock · Jun 21, 2005, 06:33 PM // 18:33

thanks for the good laugh

elitist, permanoob, f*cktard, idiots, why can't we just be gamers, and not fill up these forums with such garbage terms and arguments? huh?

northernlights · Jun 21, 2005, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Well I agree with some of the OP's comments, I like the idea of him writing strategy guides instead of broadcasting his self-defined greatness.

Show us what you know, dont tell us that you know.